Rapture vs. Overcoming

Updated 04/26/18

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    Why is it the doctrine of the rapture has the inherent ability to divide God's born-again believers more than any other doctrine? Why is it those who teach this doctrine cannot even agree on the timing of this one event ("pre," "mid," or "post tribulation")? I believe the reason why is because there is so much error sown into this one doctrine. Yet, that's no big surprise, seeing how this doctrine is mostly based on a false interpretation of a true vision that was given back in 1830, and it has just gone downhill since then:


"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8-9

     You see brethren; Yeshua said Christians would be here during the great tribulation. Daniel said Christians would have to go through the great tribulation, but the Church has sanitized those verses to say they really don't mean that. Let us see what has been hidden in plain sight in your Bibles shall we?


"For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. THEN shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And THEN shall many [Christians] be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another." Matthew 24:7-10


     Who is the great divider of God's people? Who has always introduced out-right lies mixed with part truths to confuse and divide the people of God? Satan knows that once the prevailing opinion in a matter has been established as "the gospel truth," it becomes a very hard thing to ever speak against in the church or any place else for that matter. This is the same way that propaganda works; just make something—anything—constantly come up before the people. Then give anyone who would dare speak against it a hard time through intimidation, shunning, false accusing, etc. After all, who wants to be ostracized for speaking against something that the majority of the people have already blindly accepted as the truth? Nevertheless, all biblical truths must be set forth by God's original two witnesses: the Spirit and the Word.


     I will tell you this right from the beginning; I was once one of the most adherent supporters of this rapture doctrine. I made tracts and bumper stickers to hand out; telling people about The Rapture that was to come upon the Earth and their need to accept Jesus into their lives before it's too late and they are "left behind." Now my heart was in the right place, but my head, or should I say, the knowledge of the Word was not. I used to cry out to the LORD, "Just leave me behind, I don't care about what will happen to me; someone has to be here to tell the people about what's happing to the world and why." "I want to tell the people about you Jesus so they won't die and go to Hell." In those days I would fast a lot and seek the LORD for all I could get pertaining to His Spirit and His Word. I found myself drawn to end-time prophecies seeing that I knew this was the time I was just "born-again" into. One evening as I was studying the Word while fasting, the Holy Spirit just dropped a revelation into me and it's almost like I heard an audible bell go off in my head. As I sat back in amazement I knew something(s) had just been poured into my understanding pertaining to the many questions I had in the Word. Yet most of what was given me was not revealed until many days, months, and years down the road. The only thing I will discuss in this chapter pertaining to that revelation was that which pertained to the Rapture. Now remember, I was just like many of you believing "lock, stock, and barrel" that this rapture event was going to happen just like I had been told by most of Christendom from the day I was saved. However, the next morning after I had received these yet unknown revelations, I knew of a certainty that the Rapture teaching was wrong and that it was not going to happen as many Christians believed it would happen, pre, mid, or post. There will be no suspense here because in a sentence I will just tell you what I will prove throughout the rest of this chapter. The rapture as taught by the Bible speaks of a spiritual "catching up" event when Yeshua physically returns at Armageddon, just like Paul was spiritually "caught up" to the "third Heaven," yet his body remained alive on Earth.


"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." 2-Corinthians 12:2-4


"And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead. Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe."
Acts 14:19-20


     I have said this many times myself after first being taught this by wise men of God: "The Bible must define the Bible." Meaning to say, any revelation or interpretation that comes forth in the Church must also be found written in the Bible either outright or in the "hidden mamma," which are the symbologies and Types of God's Word. Anyone can come up with their own interpretation of a passage, or create a doctrine around a verse or two, but God condemns this practice:


"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." 2-Peter 1:20


     The Bible goes on to warn Christians to "try the spirits…" because not everything one hears, even if they sincerely believe it is from the Holy Spirit, is going to be from God. It has been said that "Satan is like rat poison: 98% good food, but it's the 2% of poison that gets them." That being said, most if not all false doctrine will be built up upon some element of truth. I say built up because as the years go on things get added to these "doctrines of devils" that never seem to be questioned as to their validity in the Word. No one dares question the man up front or the wrath of the church elders will be brought to bear. Those who do legitimately question what they believe may be errors of doctrine can have all sorts of demonic retribution leveled at them. They are first said to be "in rebellion," or are "attacking the Pasture because they want to be in charge." They will even be called "Satanists sent in to destroy the Church." Lastly, they are accused of "Never having been saved in the first place" and many other slanderous and accusatory things are said. So spirits of false accusations, false doctrine, fear, manipulation, and control all go to work diligently protecting their investments that they have labored sometimes for centuries to plant within the household of God.


     I think it would be beneficial to include in this study the main purpose for which both the Old and the New Testament teaches us "the blood" is used for. I think we can all agree it is for the remission or payment of our sins. However, it does not stop there! Anyone who has read the Bible through knows the blood of Yeshua not only cleanses us, but it gives us power to overcome sin as well: "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace" Romans 6:14. To put that another way, salvation apart from sanctification will never bring about the full deliverance that Jesus promised us throughout His Word. So why then do God's people eagerly seek to escape this "present suffering" if this is what God has ordained to bring about that change in us (Gen 3:17)?


"Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." Isaiah 48:10


"If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up." Daniel 3:17-18

"For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" Philippians 1:29


"But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." 1 Peter 5:10

     You know the Devil is trying to deceive many brethren into thinking that they can serve God in some half-hearted, lukewarm, or even backslidden Christian walk, and then when times get tough they will just be gloriously removed from the Earth in "the rapture" by an all loving God. These same brethren must also believe they're just going to be miraculously changed into the "spotless" bride of Christ adorned for her master, when many were and have been just "standing idle in the marketplace." Someone also needs to ask the many Christians around the world who are being martyred for their faith as you read this "How the rapture (doctrine) is working for them?" I believe you will find this doctrine only seems to take hold in places and countries where there is little to no real persecution for the faith taking place. I'm afraid someday American Christians are going to be in for a big surprise.


     As for being "changed," I don't believe this changed nature is something most Christians are even seeking to qualify for (Rev 12:11; 14:4-5), since they have been told they are just going to "fly away" someday anyway; I mean why bother? Another comment I hear all the time from the many tenacious rapture exponents is this, "Hey brother, the Bible says God has not appointed us unto wrath!" I always say "Amen" to that. But you know, God also said He did not made Hell for man, but we know many have and are going there just the same. Christians need to remember everything that Jesus preached, everything in the Bible is conditional. Moreover, the Bible tells us it's the wicked who are to be bundled, burned, and taken away (removed) for judgment, whereas the righteous will inherit the Earth:


"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." John 17:15


     One of the stories many preachers so enjoy quoting in support of this feel good escapism doctrine, is the story of Noah and the flood. They say this is proof text for the rapture, but let's compare apples to apples here. First off, Noah and his family were never actually taken from the Earth were they? They were protected by obeying God's word to prepare the ark while others mocked their perceived insanity. Today this types out as preparing the soul for His secret temple coming. Now afterwards the eight walked the same Earth they had previously walked, except for now the wicked had been removed or "taken" in judgment! Moreover, the main emphasis of that reference was that the people were "eating and drinking…" and didn't have a clue when, or even that destruction was coming. So likewise, "as it was in the days of Noah," so shall it be in the end-time: Christians need to be preparing the ark of their souls by obeying God's Word & His Spirit; and if we can't we had better start adding fasting with our prayers to gain control over our souls. We all need to come up higher in our walk with God because the flood of ungodly men & armies (Isa 28:2-3; Jer 12:5; Rev 12:15) will soon cover the earth. Then when destruction does come we too will be lifted up in the Spirit to meet the LORD in a higher relationship as spoken of in Revelation 12:5 below:


"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne." Revelation 12:5


"Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered [separated from] of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her CHILDREN [not one, or even two, but a remnant]." Isaiah 66:7-8

"But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions." Obadiah 1:17


"And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S." Obadiah 1:21


     On the other hand there will be another group of Christians that will not be found ready and watching for their LORD'S coming because they are fast asleep. The following verses pertain to them:


"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." Luke 21:20-22


"And the woman [foolish virgin] fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." Revelation 12:6

     Jesus is talking about the "great tribulation" in Luke 21 above. These are Christians who are told to "flee" brethren! And whether you believe this is a reference to spiritual or natural mountains, or spiritual Jews or natural Jews (who of course don't read the Bible or believe in Jesus' warnings anyway), makes no difference. There will be believers on the earth during the great tribulation who have to "flee" so as not to be killed: Mat 10:23. Do not make the mistake others have made by building your faith around one verse, or the interpretation of a passage or two, or on one erroneously interpreted vision. Especially when that interpretation or doctrine leaves you waiting for a type of deliverance that Jesus never intended. The fact remains, all believers will be here on this earth during the great tribulation and that which follows it (Isa 26:20-21). To prove this point further let's look at the parable of the tares:


"Let both grow together until the harvest [the vials]: and in the time of harvest [the indignation: Is 26:20-21] I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:30


     Do you see the order here? It's the wicked who are gathered first. Now I suppose the "post-trib" folks are saying, "See, I told you the rapture happens last!" Close, but tell me, why would believers need to be removed from the very place God says they're going to inherit, especially after the Earth is purged?


"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." Psalm 37:9-11


"For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off [taken]." Psalm 37:22


     Then of course what rapture study would be complete without exploring the now famous vision had by one 13-year old Margaret McDonald back in 1830. That vision (see link), and the passage in 1-Thessalonians 4:15-17 are the two pillars upon which the rapture doctrine is supposedly supported, but can we look at these two references outside the end-time rapture box?  Let's see if God's Word illuminates a better interpretation than what has been previously applied to little Margaret's vision.



Excerpt from 1830 vision: "I saw it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout, just the glorified man, even Jesus; but that all must, as Stephen was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, that they might look up, and see the brightness of the Father's glory. I saw the error to be that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but 'tis spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people." See link


    That excerpt very plainly describes the first secret coming of the Christ to the man child Co./the remnant temple that is shown many times in type thoughout the Bible. It is also paramount that we study the "air" many of the brethren say we are to get "caught up" into, since this is the very heart of the rapture doctrine's premise.


"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7


"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit [G4154: breath] gave them utterance." Acts 2:2-4


"Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe [Gen 2:7] upon these slain, that they may live [the dead in Christ arising first]." Ezekiel 37:9


     So brethren are you starting to see how "breath," breathe," "wind," and "air," are actually equating to the Holy Spirit in the Bible? Let's look at some more of the Strong's definitions

Genesis 2:7 "Breathed": H5301: naw-fakh'
A primitive root; to puff, in various applications (literally, to inflate, blow hard, scatter, kindle, expire; figuratively, to disesteem): - blow, breath, give up, cause to lose [life], seething, snuff.


     Now look back at 1-Thessalonians 4:17 once again, especially the word "air."


"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds [great cloud of witnesses], to meet the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1- Thessalonians 4:17

1-Thessalonians 4:17 "Air": G109: ah-ayr'
From aēmi (to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient): - air. Compare G5594.

     Ok, so now you say, "There you go! It can't be any planer than that; Christians must go up in the air!" Howbeit, if we are to "meet the LORD in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord," WHEN DO WE COME DOWN? I mean that verse is also saying we are going to be forever up in the air floating with Jesus. That would be awkward. This is why we must always factor in that God speaks to us using symbolic representations more often than not. The golden rule still applies here: the Bible must interpret the Bible (2-Peter 1:20). Any-old unsaved sinner or devil can come up with this "fly-away" dogma, just like many have who for years (since 1830) have fallen into lock-step with this less than inspired modern day interpretation for the "catching-up." Many have proclaimed dates for this rapture that come and go without event, and the world mocks Christians, God's Word, and of course God Himself. The Word is spiritually discerned brethren, but you say "It's literal." OK, bon appétit:


"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53


     Satan counts on Christians to be lazy laity and to just eat-up everything that comes their way, especially when it's the "broad way" that leads to escaping suffering. Whereas God says we (each of us) should be busy Bereans', searching His Word to see if such things be so. So let us continue to search out what the biblical interpretation for these clouds of meeting in 1-Thessalonians 4 are, and I will give you a hint, it has to do more with departed brethren (witnesses), than with condensed moisture:


"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before  us." Hebrews 12:1


     Over and over again the Bible describes the LORD'S different returns and or His appearings as sometimes "on," sometimes "in," and sometimes "with" the clouds of Heaven:


"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven [Rev 19], and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." Daniel 7:13


     You know when I look out my window today I already see clouds, so something must be special about the cloud(s) that Jesus is bringing with Him when He returns:


"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." Revelation 19:14

"And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber (brass: judgment), out of the midst of the fire." Ezekiel 1:4


     Above in Ezekiel chapter one, we see still another picture of one of the LORD'S appearings as described using pure typology, and if you read on you start to see the interpretation of what—or who—makes up this "great cloud" the LORD returns in: it's the saints who have gone on to "follow the Lamb wheresoever" He lead them in their day and age. In other words, it's the overcomers who have died (where martyred) and now reside in the heavenly realm ("that they without us should not be made perfect": Hebrews 11:40). Now what about this air in which the saints are to meet the LORD? I think you will find out the air being described in 1-Thessalonians 4 is not the kind that dries our clothes:


"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8


     Very seldom did Yeshua speak verbatim parables, i.e., apple = apple, or cloud = cloud. However, most of the time it seems what was meant to be taken metaphorically in the Bible, was seldom seen as such by those who felt they needed to add their own carnal knowledge to the pot (2-Ki 4:40). A good example of this was when Yeshua spoke of tearing down the temple, and that He would rebuild it again after three days. Or how about when He said we should eat His flesh? Come on now brethren! Surely there must be some cannibal Christians out there with the way everything gets interpreted? I can say without a doubt that Satan has used the gullibility of a certain invented laity class of believers to just blindly accept anything the self-imposed clergy class puts before them; I know I use to. It is a fact that God speaks to humanity using symbolic language, but the Christian is to possess understanding (Mat 13:10-11).


     The fact also remains that this "air," which an atheist will say is just that—AIR, has its true interpretation in the Bible as "Spirit"; God's Spirit. The Bible must interpret the Bible or it's simply not the Word of God. The following are just a few of the verses that support this truth. I believe you will see the catching-up experience spoken of in 1-Thessalonians 4 that all Christians are thought to be caught-up into (for there are two other "catching ups" spoken of in Rev 12:5, & 11:12), is actually a situation where the spirit and soul of just some of the brethren begin to be caught-up into a higher realm of God's presence/Spirit. The other catching up event (Rev 11:12) is an actual physical catching or calling up. Then those that remain "alive" and "cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" (the end of Armageddon: Dan 12:12) will begin to be "changed" throughout the thousand year reign as they too completely surrender their souls onto GOD'S Holy Spirit (see link). That is what the "day of rest" (from the works of the flesh)/the "Dispensation of the Fullness" is for; to make men "every whit whole" [complete]:


"If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?" John 7:23 

     We must keep in mind brethren God's master plan; we are not only to be born-again, we must also be sanctified before the perfecting of the soul can take place (Mat 5:48). Any doctrine that teaches a Christian can escape or cut the sanctification process out of the picture is selling you a doctrine of devils my friend. I know there are going to be those who still believe that if the Bible says "up in the air we ALL go," then they will continue to literally believe, up, up, and away..., but then it, Jesus, also says we are to "gouge out our eyes" and to "cut off our hands" if they cause us to offend now doesn't it?


     The Bible most definitely describes three different rapture type events that will take place. One at the start of the great tribulation/the 42-months (the secret temple appearing: Mal 3:1; Mat 25:10), one after the Two Witnesses finish their 1,260 days of ministry and are killed and resurrected (this one is a literal catching up into perfection), and the one that we just talked about in 1-Thessalonians 4, which progressively takes place throughout the next thousand years. This last spiritual rapture starts for some at the beginning of Armageddon. This last one is the only rapture type event most of the Church seems to have even heard about. In Revelation 12 we are told about a group of saints who are symbolically called the "Man child," which literally means "mature son(s)." We are also told about the "Two Witnesses" or "two martyrs" in Revelation 11. Then there's the "Two Olive trees"/"Two Anointed Ones" that stand by the Lord of the whole earth that the angel told Zechariah in a roundabout way represent the "Spirit" and the "Word" in Zechariah 4:6. These are the saints that will minister the gospel to the world while they "feed" or minister to another portion of the Church that wasn't quite ready when the bridegroom returned:


"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was CAUGHT UP unto God, and to his throne (Mal 3:1). And the woman [foolish virgins] fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they [the man child/two witnesses/wise virgins] should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." Revelation 12:5-6


"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went [meaning he was preparing] to make war with the remnant [two witnesses/man child] of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17


     Later, these same man child brethren will be attacked by Gog, the dragon/Satan/the False Prophet (the presiding Pope), just like the two witness brethren will be, for they are one and the same remnant group of overcomers. For Revelation 11:7 says that "the beast out of the pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them" after their 42-month ministry. These are all the same brethren folks. It's just different typologies being applied to keep things hid. However, it's time they be known; PRAISE GOD!


     OK, now there's the first spiritual rapture in Revelation 12 above, where the man child brethren are "caught up unto God, and to his throne." This also coincides with the "marriage of the Lamb": Mat 25:10. This is also known as the first secret coming of the LORD to His earthly temple, which same secret coming is also typed-out in John 7:10-14. So you saw how the Bible says these brethren are going to be "caught up" to God's throne and yet they're also going to be "feeding" the same "woman" that they had just came out of; that same Woman Church that had been nurturing them as they were growing up into Christ. This secret catching up tells us their bodies are still going to be physically on the earth at that time just like Paul's was. Come on now brethren! you are supposed to be asking for a second witness to this precept I'm speaking here; actually a third, since I already showed you John 7:10-14, and 2-Corinthians 12:2:


"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:" Malachi 3:1-2

     The fact of the matter is these end-time brethren―just like Paul―are going to be the only brethren who will have overcome their adamic natures to a great extent before the great tribulation begins. However, they will still be learning obedience throughout the 42-months by the things they too will suffer ("sackcloth and ashes"). These are and will be the "wise virgin" group of Christians who were ready and watching for their Master's return or coming, but not "every eye" will see this 1st return; it will only be for those who are watching, and definitely not every Christian is doing that. This is when the "double portion"/"former & latter rain"/"greater works" ministry is imparted into the spotless bride at the marriage consumption, which is another doctrine in itself, but let's stick to that which pertains to this first of three rapture type events. Now the next time the Bible describes a rapture type event taking place is after the 42-months, once the witnesses are ordered to be killed by the 2nd beast in Revelation 13, but we should read that in Revelation 11


"And when they shall have finished their [42-month] testimony, the beast [actually Satan & his princes in a people] that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city [world-wide Babylon], which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets [olive trees/man child/etc.] tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud [Heb 11:40]; and their enemies beheld them." Revelation 11:7-12


     Revelation 11:12 takes place after the 42-months of great tribulation, but before the vial judgments begin, and is the only time the Bible speaks of saints (the overcoming martyred dead) being caught up or more precisely "called up" physically into the heavenly realm; just like Jesus was when He ascended. Furthermore, this catching up is definitely not going to involve all living saints. Moreover, the worst is yet to follow when the Lamb begins to pour out "the wrath of the Lamb" during the "indignation" 30-day time period. After that GOD'S "fierce wrath" also called "the winepress of the wrath of GOD" at Armageddon.


     So brethren, I'm just asking that you take these things and go back into the Word. Pray, and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal if you've been deceived in any way about the rapture. I did 30-years ago and the LORD revealed it to me one night. It just came as a word of knowledge and has proved itself out as I studied what the Spirit had revealed to me. "Go, and do likewise."